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	<title>Comments on: Celebration, Florida</title>
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	<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/</link>
	<description>Thoughts and observations from a quirky cartoonist and designer.</description>
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		<title>By: Barb</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1574</link>
		<dc:creator>Barb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Aug 2005 01:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1574</guid>
		<description>If you didn&#039;t see oddly-colored houses in Celebration (not to mention junky cars), you didn&#039;t come very far into town. We&#039;re got electric blue and mustard yellow houses, as well as a large, purple Victorian that is currently under construction. A few of the homes have the fake windows, but most of the upstairs windows are genuine. It amazes me at how many of the old rumors refuse to die and how many people still believe them, even when they have supposedly been here to visit.

We&#039;ve owned our home in Celebration for two years now, and I snicker over supposed &quot;facts&quot; about our community. We&#039;re not even close to Walt&#039;s vision of Epcot, although I guess it makes a quaint story. I have a blog at http://celebrationfl.blogspot.com that gives my take on life in the &quot;Disney Town.&quot;  It&#039;s probably as skewed as anything else, but I like to think it gives a more genuine portrait of our community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you didn’t see oddly-colored houses in Celebration (not to mention junky cars), you didn’t come very far into town. We’re got electric blue and mustard yellow houses, as well as a large, purple Victorian that is currently under construction. A few of the homes have the fake windows, but most of the upstairs windows are genuine. It amazes me at how many of the old rumors refuse to die and how many people still believe them, even when they have supposedly been here to visit.</p>
<p>We’ve owned our home in Celebration for two years now, and I snicker over supposed “facts” about our community. We’re not even close to Walt’s vision of Epcot, although I guess it makes a quaint story. I have a blog at <a href="http://celebrationfl.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://celebrationfl.blogspot.com</a> that gives my take on life in the “Disney Town.”  It’s probably as skewed as anything else, but I like to think it gives a more genuine portrait of our community.</p>
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		<title>By: ylawayjdp</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1573</link>
		<dc:creator>ylawayjdp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 May 2005 20:19:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1573</guid>
		<description>Hi recently found your site, enjoying your blogs and have added them to Sage (firefox plugin).  I visited celebrations while I was over in the states last Christmas.

To be honest I actually found the place a little spooky.  The whole place is so regimented, there is no  opportunity for self expression or artistic licence, in some cases I can see how this would be a good idea i.e. no cars parked on the lawns being worked on and no ghastly neon pink or electric blue houses.

However one thing I found especially odd was the fact that every house has had sudo windows placed into the roof to make it look like the perfect American house.  Yet there are no rooms behind the windows in fact apparently the windows are just stuck onto the outside of the houses to make it more aesthetically pleasing.

Is this not just the furthering the image consciousness of society?  Here in the UK  young children are obsessed with looking older and like pop stars before they are grown.  Yet another step in the wrong direction its like sending a message to all the Americans who live below the poverty line &quot;look another piece of the American dream you can&#039;t hope to attain&quot;.  Also I wonder if you live in a utopian town which has a utopian community if you think much about what is going on outside your town, state dare I say it Country?

Just my two peneth worth

Nice Blog
Jx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi recently found your site, enjoying your blogs and have added them to Sage (firefox plugin).  I visited celebrations while I was over in the states last Christmas.</p>
<p>To be honest I actually found the place a little spooky.  The whole place is so regimented, there is no  opportunity for self expression or artistic licence, in some cases I can see how this would be a good idea i.e. no cars parked on the lawns being worked on and no ghastly neon pink or electric blue houses.</p>
<p>However one thing I found especially odd was the fact that every house has had sudo windows placed into the roof to make it look like the perfect American house.  Yet there are no rooms behind the windows in fact apparently the windows are just stuck onto the outside of the houses to make it more aesthetically pleasing.</p>
<p>Is this not just the furthering the image consciousness of society?  Here in the UK  young children are obsessed with looking older and like pop stars before they are grown.  Yet another step in the wrong direction its like sending a message to all the Americans who live below the poverty line “look another piece of the American dream you can’t hope to attain”.  Also I wonder if you live in a utopian town which has a utopian community if you think much about what is going on outside your town, state dare I say it Country?</p>
<p>Just my two peneth worth</p>
<p>Nice Blog<br />
Jx</p>
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		<title>By: Max</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator>Max</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 May 2005 16:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1572</guid>
		<description>If memory serves me (which it doesn&#039;t always), &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.designobserver.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Michael Bierut&lt;/a&gt; helped design quite a bit of Celebration - I believe he mentioned it at a local AIGA presentation I attended. I think he talked about how everything from the manholes to the street signs were touched by his team at Pentagram.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If memory serves me (which it doesn’t always), <a href="http://www.designobserver.com" rel="nofollow">Michael Bierut</a> helped design quite a bit of Celebration — I believe he mentioned it at a local AIGA presentation I attended. I think he talked about how everything from the manholes to the street signs were touched by his team at Pentagram.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zeratsky</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1571</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zeratsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 01:05:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1571</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I totally assumed you were in the U.S. Silly me. Guess I will be more careful from now on...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I totally assumed you were in the U.S. Silly me. Guess I will be more careful from now on…</p>
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		<title>By: beto</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1570</link>
		<dc:creator>beto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 22:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1570</guid>
		<description>Capitol city = San Jose, Costa Rica. I was lacking better terms to say &quot;main city of third world country&quot; or something like that.

Assumptions are funny, huh? :D

BTW, I was on DC last August. I&#039;d be more than happy if our cities were a tenth as organized as Washington, though I like San Francisco best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capitol city = San Jose, Costa Rica. I was lacking better terms to say “main city of third world country” or something like that.</p>
<p>Assumptions are funny, huh? <img src='http://www.kartooner.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW, I was on DC last August. I’d be more than happy if our cities were a tenth as organized as Washington, though I like San Francisco best.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zeratsky</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1569</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zeratsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 20:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1569</guid>
		<description>By capitol city, I assume you mean Washington, D.C. Right?

Funny thing about that... Washington is one of the few master-planned cities in America. Pierre L&#039;Enfant was recruited by George Washington himself to design the city, but then &quot;fired&quot; before he could finish. Later, his plan was re-adopted and continues to be used today in planning development in the city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By capitol city, I assume you mean Washington, D.C. Right?</p>
<p>Funny thing about that… Washington is one of the few master-planned cities in America. Pierre L’Enfant was recruited by George Washington himself to design the city, but then “fired” before he could finish. Later, his plan was re-adopted and continues to be used today in planning development in the city.</p>
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		<title>By: beto</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1568</link>
		<dc:creator>beto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 20:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1568</guid>
		<description>I read a long article on Celebration some years ago in NYT magazine. Walt Disney indeed thought of EPCOT as a full-fledged urban project, complete with residences and all (though in a somewhat more futuristic fashion than the actual quaint home designs over there).

From what I remember of such article, it talked a lot of how the development process went, and how Disney&#039;s idealistic vision of a perfect community &quot;done right in all counts&quot; clashed with the realities of an imperfect world.

Coming to think of it, our capitol city would make good use of a great fire like Chicago&#039;s - it is such an unsolvable urban mess that best bet should be being able to start from scratch. Honestly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I read a long article on Celebration some years ago in NYT magazine. Walt Disney indeed thought of EPCOT as a full-fledged urban project, complete with residences and all (though in a somewhat more futuristic fashion than the actual quaint home designs over there).</p>
<p>From what I remember of such article, it talked a lot of how the development process went, and how Disney’s idealistic vision of a perfect community “done right in all counts” clashed with the realities of an imperfect world.</p>
<p>Coming to think of it, our capitol city would make good use of a great fire like Chicago’s — it is such an unsolvable urban mess that best bet should be being able to start from scratch. Honestly.</p>
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		<title>By: kartooner</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator>kartooner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 20:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1567</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-10213&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;John&lt;/a&gt;: Thanks for the added insight. I&#039;m always interested in the different methodologies of design and architecture in particular, an aspect of design that is sometimes overlooked.

On that note, it&#039;s a good thing the Great Fire of 1871 occured, otherwise Chicago wouldn&#039;t have been restructured the way it is today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-10213" rel="nofollow">John</a>: Thanks for the added insight. I’m always interested in the different methodologies of design and architecture in particular, an aspect of design that is sometimes overlooked.</p>
<p>On that note, it’s a good thing the Great Fire of 1871 occured, otherwise Chicago wouldn’t have been restructured the way it is today.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt (brother)</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1566</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt (brother)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 18:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1566</guid>
		<description>Hey Erik, on a totally unrelated subject, WB is planning on remaking the Looney Toons..  You can find a preview of the upcoming cartoon here:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.toonamiarsenal.com/misc/lf/LoonaticsPreview.mov&quot; title=&quot;Looney Toons&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Erik, on a totally unrelated subject, WB is planning on remaking the Looney Toons..  You can find a preview of the upcoming cartoon here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.toonamiarsenal.com/misc/lf/LoonaticsPreview.mov" title="Looney Toons" rel="nofollow">here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: John Zeratsky</title>
		<link>http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1565</link>
		<dc:creator>John Zeratsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 May 2005 17:14:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kartooner.com/archives/2005/05/04/celebration-florida/#comment-1565</guid>
		<description>We talked about Celebration, FL in an urban planning class I took last year. &lt;em&gt;Very&lt;/em&gt; fascinating.

It&#039;s interesting to see examples along the planning spectrum -- from unplanned cities like Old Boston to overplanned cities like Celebration. The right way, as always, is somewhere in between.

The trick is to provide enough structure and guidance that it&#039;s easy for people to build smart. With no planning or guidance whatsoever, you get chaos. At best, when there are geographical constraints (like in Boston), this turns out to be lively and interesting. At worst, with no constraints, you get big box retail.

A great example of doing it the &quot;right way&quot; is Chicago. After the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Great Fire in 1871&lt;/a&gt;, the city was rebuilt with a new opportunity for good planning. Apparently, the pre-fire Chicago was chaotic and disorderly, only minimally constrained by the location of the lake. After the fire, a new set of guidelines helped direct future development and as a result Chicago is one of the best-planned cities on a fundamental level. (More recent planning, including public transportation, is another story...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We talked about Celebration, FL in an urban planning class I took last year. <em>Very</em> fascinating.</p>
<p>It’s interesting to see examples along the planning spectrum — from unplanned cities like Old Boston to overplanned cities like Celebration. The right way, as always, is somewhere in between.</p>
<p>The trick is to provide enough structure and guidance that it’s easy for people to build smart. With no planning or guidance whatsoever, you get chaos. At best, when there are geographical constraints (like in Boston), this turns out to be lively and interesting. At worst, with no constraints, you get big box retail.</p>
<p>A great example of doing it the “right way” is Chicago. After the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chicago_Fire" rel="nofollow">Great Fire in 1871</a>, the city was rebuilt with a new opportunity for good planning. Apparently, the pre-fire Chicago was chaotic and disorderly, only minimally constrained by the location of the lake. After the fire, a new set of guidelines helped direct future development and as a result Chicago is one of the best-planned cities on a fundamental level. (More recent planning, including public transportation, is another story…)</p>
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